Go Back   ZeldaPower Forums > ZeldaPower > Gaming Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Jan. 16, 2005, 12:38 AM   #1
Wrath Mania
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Zelda Timeline Discussion & Debate

I posted a topic on this subject a week ago or so, but I decided since this is such a hot topic, and this is a Zelda board believe it or not, that I'd make a sticky.

Now, as Aunoma has said recently, the Zelda timeline has been skewed over the years due to localization (leave it to the idiots at NoA to screw things up). While Miyamoto also said there's been a document created that connects all the games, its clear that the storyline has only been a recent concern for Nintendo, in the post-OoT era. They've realized that fans are interested in it, and Aunoma has made an effort to do such.

Wind Waker was a clear effort do such, and remains the most advanced story in the series. Yet it created a lot of questions as well with the apparent destruction of Hyrule AND Ganon. Some expect Hyrule to magically be recreated following WW, and for the rest of the Zelda games released before OoT to take place after WW. But it seems clear the creators intended to have Hyrule destroyed WW. That was the ENTIRE POINT of the ending with the King.

Couple that with the fact we once thought OoT was LTTP's backstory, the recent questions Minish Cap and Four Swords Adventures brought up, and the complete question marks surrounding the original two games, one has to ask, is there even a timeline? Or does nintendo treat the Zelda storyline much like the Mario one?

Undoubtly, some of the games DO connect. The most obvious strand is OoT-MM-WW.

MM obviously took place after OoT... and WW was the clear direct sequel to the two. There is the question of the whole dual timeline thing Aunoma and Miyamoto brought up in a press conference around WW's release... something I will adress later.

The second strand begins with LTTP... at the end of the game, the triforce is together and in the hands of good, and Ganon is defeated. At the beggining of the Oracle series, the triforce is together and in the hands of good. Logically, that is a clear connection between the two games. In addition, Link fights Agahnim as a mini-boss in the Oracle of Seasons.

At the end of the Oracle series, Link sails off into the seas... a clear hint that LA takes place after that.

So we have LTTP-Oracles-LA.

The third strand is the most recently created, and possibly the one that is the most seperate from the rest of the series. The Minish Cap/Four Swords timeline seems like it's in a world of its own. The Minish Cap's prologue speaks of great evil plaguing the land, and the Picori bringing a great sword and something known as the lightforce to the chosen hero (who looks like Link sans the cap), who then cast away the evil.

Fast forward, Vaati comes, breaks the sword's seal as he searches for the light force (Vaati himself is revealed to have once been a minish, and he turned his old mentor, Ezlo, into the hat that aids Link). Link repairs the sword, which becomes the Four Sword, defeats Vaati, who becomes the strange one-eyed mage, and saves Zelda.

A wee bit of time passes, and the original Four Swords takes place. Vaati escapes his seal, kidnaps Zelda. Link uses the Four Sword to beat Vaati once again.

Then comes Four Swords Adventures, which seems to take place shortly after Four Swords. Vaati escapes once again with th help of Dark Link. Link uses the Four Sword, travels the land, beats down Dark Link, frees Zelda, and beats Vaati. Vaati is suddenly revealed to be working with Ganon, who became his pig form by stealing some Gerudo Trident. Link and Zelda seal Ganon away, fini.

So that timeline is MC-FS-FSA.

This leaves us with the first two games in the series, ZI-ZII. It's fairly clear they take place sequently.

So that gives us four strands:

OoT-MM-WW
LTTP-Oracles-LA
MC-FS-FSA
ZI-ZII

The question is, can those strands be connected or interlinked?

Some things in MC hint to events in the Oracle series (Din of Holodrum is mentioned wanting to come to Hyrule... something she tries to do in the Oracles). In WW, the King describes Ganon as the "Emperor of the Dark Realm.".... an obvious reference to the Dark World. Yet in OoT, although Ganondorf was sealed away in the Evil Realm, he was certainly no ruler of it as he was in LTTP.

Ganon is also sealed in the Dark Realm in FSA, which would make some suspect that LTTP could take place after FSA... except the Triforce is never mentioned in FSA, while Ganon has ALL of it in the beggining of LTTP.

Where does this leave us, reader?

Well, OoT was always meant to be first in the series. So OoT-MM is first up.

This brings us to the dual timeline of OoT that Aunoma hinted about in a press conference around WW's release. That there were indeed two "endings" to OoT... the "Adult" ending, where Link goes back in time and Hyrule moves on with Ganondorf sealed away and peace returned... and the "Young" Ending, where Link returns as a boy and goes to talk with Zelda (it's never explained what happened to Ganondorf in the young Link ending).

Aunoma said WW takes place after the "Adult" ending. While some, like the infamous TSA of www.zeldaheadquarters.com refuse to believe this idea, it is concievable from what Aunoma stated that WW takes place after the Adult Ending (which also explains why there was no successor of Link or the OoT Link around when Ganondorf escaped the Evil Realm, he had gone back in time and thus there was no immediate successor), and thus WW is seperate from the rest of the series so far.

The problem with that, of course, is that there were a slew of references to Majoras Mask in Wind Waker, most notably the King explaining that after defeating Ganon, the Hero of Time set off on a journey to another land, and when he did, the triforce of courage seperated from him. This is a clear reference to MM. Also, the whole Tingle subplot and the "Legend of the Fairy" is very connected to MM.

Infact, OoT's whole ending was screwey to say the least. As I mentioned, there's no explanation to Ganon's fate in the Young Link ending. Shouldn't he still be around? Why is Zelda back at the castle when you return?

Consequently, you could think that, like in Terminator 3, although our heroes defeated evil, they only delayed the inevitable.

Not that the dual timeline theory was that plausible anyways... TSA claims the whole Aunoma interview was translation errors and misunderstanding.

Where the hell does that leave us? After all, many like to think LTTP takes place after WW... but if Hyrule is destroyed, and Ganondorf seemingly killed off, how does anything take place afterwards?

Our only conclusion, at least for now, is that there are four seperate mythologies.

ZI-ZII
LTTP-Oracles-LA
MC-FS-FSA
OoT-MM-WW








  Reply With Quote
Old Jan. 16, 2005, 02:52 PM   #2
Wrath Mania
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

Note: In a recent interview, Aunoma said that they have decided the Four Swords/MC mythology is the "oldest" in the Zelda timeline, although there is some debate as to whether in the translation it was lost if he actually meant last, or most recent, of if it is indeed the first strand in the series.

Also, I suppose you could make the argument that the Oracles/LA take place after Adventure of Link and not Link to the Past... since the triforce is fully formed after that game as well.
  Reply With Quote
Old Jan. 17, 2005, 08:45 PM   #3
Darkmoonchild
ZP Phantom
Gold Legend
 
Darkmoonchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct. 29, 2003
Posts: 8,874
Send a message via AIM to Darkmoonchild Send a message via MSN to Darkmoonchild Send a message via Yahoo to Darkmoonchild Send a message via Skype™ to Darkmoonchild
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

FSA has a story? See this is a problem. Ive played every Zelda besides FS FSA and MC.....Grr...Im missing out. (P.S. Ill print and read later WAYYY TO LONG)



(P.S.S- Hey a new pinned topic!)
__________________
Darkmoonchild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan. 18, 2005, 08:50 PM   #4
Wrath Mania
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

Well, the stories weren't mind boggling.

Four Swords was basically Vaati kidnappning Zelda, and Link using the Four Sword to beat him.

Four Swords Adventures supposedly took place after that, except this time Dark Link freed Vaati from his seal in the Four Swords, Hyrule was fairly interesting... and as it turned out, it all a plot by a certain Gerudo turned Pig who stole an ancient trident and planned on just doing evil stuff. Link sealed him in the Four Sword too.

Minish Cap takes place before all of them. Infact, some believe it is the first Zelda story, due to it's new take on the triforce (called the "light force" in this game), and the absent of some familarity in Hyrule.

  Reply With Quote
Old Jan. 20, 2005, 12:50 PM   #5
pimpin_link_069
Peasant
 
pimpin_link_069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov. 10, 2004
Posts: 135
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

the official zelda time line well me im a big fan have all th games you can think of and some you probablu cant name. well i think the zelda timeline will live on forever and for eternity until one day a zelda hating prep comes and kills all of us and destroys zelda then what then what would we do well personally i dont know what i would do ide probably die with my zelda games cause i love them to much
pimpin_link_069 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan. 22, 2005, 12:25 AM   #6
Jawth_Vader
Warrior
 
Jawth_Vader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec. 8, 2004
Posts: 1,151
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

i though that myomoto said minish cap was a windwaker sequel.
__________________
&quot;peace is a lie. there is only passion.<br />through passion i gain strength.<br />through strenth i gain power.<br />through power i gain victory.<br />through victory my chains are broken.<br />the force shall set me free&quot;<br />THE CODE OF THE SITH<br /><br />things i hate<br />1. the wind waker<br />2.terrorists<br />3. fish<br />4. gun laws<br />5. people who use words they don't know the meaning to<br />6. barney<br />7. the land before time<br />8. my teachers<br />9. cowards<br />10. micheal jackson<br />11. the dixie chicks<br />12. cuontry music<br />13. my computer<br />14. ground squrrels<br />15. people who photoshop fake images to pretend they know what their tlking about<br />16. passafists<br />17. spinoffs of good movies/ bad sequels<br />18. gays<br />19. needles<br />20. the color purple<br />21. valebtines day<br />22. the x-box(i dont know why, it just makes me sick)<br />23. Bill clinton<br />24. health food<br />25. my school<br />26. marsha smith<br />27. spammers<br />28. people who talk crap when playing games over the internet and cant really play<br />ill add more later.....<br /><br />[quote author=Kao link=topic=12072.msg411096#msg411096 date=1106378141]<br />Wow... Jawth, you *really* hate everything, don't you? :P* You're like the physical embodiment of online angst! XD<br />. :P<br />[/quote]
Jawth_Vader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan. 22, 2005, 01:15 AM   #7
Wrath Mania
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

No, he didn't. The games aren't connected at all.

I beat it just a while ago, btw.... at the end, Link gets his green cap. Symbolic evidence for it being the 1st game in the series, as Aunoma seems to indicate.
  Reply With Quote
Old Jan. 23, 2005, 02:00 PM   #8
Jawth_Vader
Warrior
 
Jawth_Vader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec. 8, 2004
Posts: 1,151
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

he gets the hood... it first.

yay!: 500th post!
__________________
&quot;peace is a lie. there is only passion.<br />through passion i gain strength.<br />through strenth i gain power.<br />through power i gain victory.<br />through victory my chains are broken.<br />the force shall set me free&quot;<br />THE CODE OF THE SITH<br /><br />things i hate<br />1. the wind waker<br />2.terrorists<br />3. fish<br />4. gun laws<br />5. people who use words they don't know the meaning to<br />6. barney<br />7. the land before time<br />8. my teachers<br />9. cowards<br />10. micheal jackson<br />11. the dixie chicks<br />12. cuontry music<br />13. my computer<br />14. ground squrrels<br />15. people who photoshop fake images to pretend they know what their tlking about<br />16. passafists<br />17. spinoffs of good movies/ bad sequels<br />18. gays<br />19. needles<br />20. the color purple<br />21. valebtines day<br />22. the x-box(i dont know why, it just makes me sick)<br />23. Bill clinton<br />24. health food<br />25. my school<br />26. marsha smith<br />27. spammers<br />28. people who talk crap when playing games over the internet and cant really play<br />ill add more later.....<br /><br />[quote author=Kao link=topic=12072.msg411096#msg411096 date=1106378141]<br />Wow... Jawth, you *really* hate everything, don't you? :P* You're like the physical embodiment of online angst! XD<br />. :P<br />[/quote]
Jawth_Vader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan. 24, 2005, 01:20 AM   #9
Wrath Mania
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

I still think Hyrule is destroyed for good in Wind Waker, btw.

So many people seem to think the old games take place after Wind Waker, and Hyrule somehow is recreated. Bull.
  Reply With Quote
Old Jan. 27, 2005, 09:34 AM   #10
elmono
Peasant
 
Join Date: Jan. 27, 2005
Posts: 4
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

hey newbie post right here only just got back into playing gmaes again this month after a year and a half hiatus. Nearly finshed Wind Waker but have not quite yet though i seem to get the gyst from whats been said. Don't exactly know what i'm trying to get at herer but i'll put some of my ideas in dot points

- i have no doubt that the plot from oot is a refernece to the legend being told at the start of alttp. WW may have complicated this but i have no doubt of the original intentions
-other then the ending involving hyrule another coomplication is that two sage ancestors remain in ww all 8 have ancestors in alttp
-WW definatly is trying to refernece MM when they mention the hero of time breaking the tri force when he goes to another world. But doesn't link get back to hyrule at the end of mm anyways. Majoras Mask can't be the reason no hero came to save the world
-i belive that the storey referes to the fact that there was suppose to be a link between OOT/MM and WW that did not come/ the WW link was late in his arrival


Its sorta disspointiung how WW created more questions then answers in terms of the overall plot. It would be great if zelda 2005 cleared the link between WW lttp or even explain better between oot and ww. Howver i guarantee it will just make things more confusing
elmono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan. 29, 2005, 05:05 PM   #11
Darkmoonchild
ZP Phantom
Gold Legend
 
Darkmoonchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct. 29, 2003
Posts: 8,874
Send a message via AIM to Darkmoonchild Send a message via MSN to Darkmoonchild Send a message via Yahoo to Darkmoonchild Send a message via Skype™ to Darkmoonchild
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath Mania
I still think Hyrule is destroyed for good in Wind Waker, btw.

So many people seem to think the old games take place after Wind Waker, and Hyrule somehow is recreated. Bull.
I say that WW is the LAST in the series so far. I don't know what happend but it seems as tho it either went OoT-MM-WW or OoT (First in series)-MM-...WW (Last in series) Because OoT seemed to start the story of link like how he grew up in kokiri forest and stuff but then at then also in WW it says that the hero never came. And he was gone in MM from hyrule so maybe Hyrule went ubnder when he was gone.
__________________
Darkmoonchild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan. 30, 2005, 08:02 PM   #12
Legendary Mike99
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

Quote:
Originally Posted by elmono
- i have no doubt that the plot from oot is a refernece to the legend being told at the start of alttp.
Execpt there wasn't a war in OoT.

Quote:
Its sorta disspointiung how WW created more questions then answers in terms of the overall plot. It would be great if zelda 2005 cleared the link between WW lttp or even explain better between oot and ww. Howver i guarantee it will just make things more confusing
That could be a good thing because it opens up new ideas for Zelda 2005.
  Reply With Quote
Old Feb. 3, 2005, 11:47 AM   #13
pimpin_link_069
Peasant
 
pimpin_link_069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov. 10, 2004
Posts: 135
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

i think the timeline of zelda will live on forever and 2005 will start the new generation of the soon to come games we will see but we should not say hyrule is destroyed cause u never know when someone comes back and makes it again :ww:
pimpin_link_069 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb. 4, 2005, 08:42 PM   #14
Darkmoonchild
ZP Phantom
Gold Legend
 
Darkmoonchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct. 29, 2003
Posts: 8,874
Send a message via AIM to Darkmoonchild Send a message via MSN to Darkmoonchild Send a message via Yahoo to Darkmoonchild Send a message via Skype™ to Darkmoonchild
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

Know what. OoT didn't answer half of its quetions in its own game. Where did Dark link conme from. Is the dark link there connected with the other game with him? (Forgot which)
__________________
Darkmoonchild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb. 5, 2005, 12:10 AM   #15
Legendary Mike99
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

Dark Link is just a mini-boss with no backstory, created by the illusions of the Water Temple.
  Reply With Quote
Old Feb. 6, 2005, 03:18 PM   #16
Darkmoonchild
ZP Phantom
Gold Legend
 
Darkmoonchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct. 29, 2003
Posts: 8,874
Send a message via AIM to Darkmoonchild Send a message via MSN to Darkmoonchild Send a message via Yahoo to Darkmoonchild Send a message via Skype™ to Darkmoonchild
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

How do we know he has no backstory....That water temple was hard
__________________
Darkmoonchild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb. 6, 2005, 04:32 PM   #17
Legendary Mike99
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

He has no backstory because Nintendo didn't provide one.
  Reply With Quote
Old Feb. 6, 2005, 04:37 PM   #18
Darkmoonchild
ZP Phantom
Gold Legend
 
Darkmoonchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct. 29, 2003
Posts: 8,874
Send a message via AIM to Darkmoonchild Send a message via MSN to Darkmoonchild Send a message via Yahoo to Darkmoonchild Send a message via Skype™ to Darkmoonchild
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

.................................................I give up.
__________________
Darkmoonchild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb. 6, 2005, 05:33 PM   #19
Legendary Mike99
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

What are you talking about?
  Reply With Quote
Old Feb. 7, 2005, 07:11 PM   #20
Darkmoonchild
ZP Phantom
Gold Legend
 
Darkmoonchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct. 29, 2003
Posts: 8,874
Send a message via AIM to Darkmoonchild Send a message via MSN to Darkmoonchild Send a message via Yahoo to Darkmoonchild Send a message via Skype™ to Darkmoonchild
Default Re: The OFFICIAL Zelda Timeline Topic

I give up. You argue with everything I say so I gave up
__________________
Darkmoonchild is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2015 ZeldaPower.com