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Old Jun. 26, 2014, 05:36 PM   #1
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Default Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

We were bold. We were fearless. We had a plan. We communicated. We fed mercilessly.



The day was not ours. Not in this game, nor in the one before it, nor the one that came after. We did not, in fact, come even close to winning a single match all night long. But tomorrow is a brand new day, and maybe what we really need is a fifth teammember who really understands us.

No experience required. The bar is already as low as it can possibly be. All you need is a basic understanding of ZP in-jokes and a willingness to fuck up in spectacular fashion. Apply within, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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Old Jun. 26, 2014, 06:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

that means you tom
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we really should of just listened to poe and done diplomacy
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Old Jun. 26, 2014, 06:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

also we did a lot better in the match after this one in which we actually faced off against adolf hitler
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we really should of just listened to poe and done diplomacy
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Old Jun. 26, 2014, 06:16 PM   #4
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

It's true, we did. We didn't actually, you know, win, but we didn't lose quite as hard. Measurable progress! Key performance indicators! Also, our fifth man was drunk.
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Old Jun. 26, 2014, 10:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

next time I'll roll Treant Protector so it will be impossible for us to feed

just gotta spam that armor

nobody messes with team tree
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the only thing id like to say in regards to it is that like ive said before i think it bears reminding that white or i guess in this case cis babyism is a thing that shouldnt be trivialized

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Old Jun. 26, 2014, 10:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

would like to take part in this if you're still doing it in a week. but I leave soon for pei and won't have access to a computer for the time being
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Old Jun. 27, 2014, 05:26 AM   #7
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

I'll certainly still be up for it. Add me on Steam? I am, as you might be able to work out, [ZP] symuun.
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Old Jun. 28, 2014, 05:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

So I have some initial thoughts following tonight's ludicrous display.

I know we were talking about team composition, but I don't think teamfights as such are our problem. The laning phase is where we tend to give up kills and slip so far back it's nearly impossible to recover, and the reason I think that is that we just do not tend to win teamfights. It's not even close, because the game is kind of already lost by the time that phase starts. The exception was that game with Dazzle, but I think the difference was that aside from that weird early trilane, we didn't feed them too many kills before we all started grouping up.

Composition obviously plays a big part even in the laning phase, but I stand by what I said in the match - I think we're better off developing a team before the match starts, based on characters we're comfortable with and which work well together, rather than counterpicking in the last few seconds before it all kicks off. The key will then be - as Phil (?) said - to get as many last hits and denials as we possibly can, and even more importantly, to not ever ever die. Time and again we go way, way forwards into places we really shouldn't, and then we get isolated and picked off. Warding will help - one ward on the safelane rune and one ward in our jungle right from the word go, for example. Whatever support doesn't buy the courier automatically buys them at match start, sort of thing.

Phil and I are currently having an intense debate on Skype over whether any of the above even matters, but I'll let him put his argument forward here if he wants to.
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Old Jun. 28, 2014, 05:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

Oh right my argument was that I mostly agree with symuun, but that I think we might want to start opening the day with a bot match just so we can get some practice in at last hitting/lane pulling, we really need to be squeezing all of the possible exp/gold out of those creeps, and yeah not dying is a big part of it but getting those clicks right is also a pretty big part.

also maybe we could beat the bots and that would give us a confidence boost?
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the only thing id like to say in regards to it is that like ive said before i think it bears reminding that white or i guess in this case cis babyism is a thing that shouldnt be trivialized
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Old Jun. 28, 2014, 06:04 PM   #10
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

Honestly in most matches if I don't get killed the last hitting and denying goes pretty well. The match with Dazzle was a good example of that, especially because I didn't get killed.
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Old Jun. 28, 2014, 10:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

I can totally get in on this shit, like, next week. Give me a time.
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Old Jun. 29, 2014, 05:34 AM   #12
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

We hang around on Steam and Skype and hitch each other up whenever we're online.
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we really should of just listened to poe and done diplomacy
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Old Jun. 29, 2014, 10:15 AM   #13
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

(Usually around 4pm est, but you me and Miguel could always go later)
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the only thing id like to say in regards to it is that like ive said before i think it bears reminding that white or i guess in this case cis babyism is a thing that shouldnt be trivialized
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Old Jun. 29, 2014, 12:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

Yeah, I can manage that kind of timing now that school is done and I've got jack shit for two months. I'm okay with that.
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Old Jun. 29, 2014, 01:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

Be prepared to lost a lot before you win which is ok

and be prepared to practice too

but if you ever played league then you should have a good idea of whats going on
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Old Jun. 30, 2014, 12:57 AM   #16
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

Allright I just played a game with Brendan we lost (probably could of won if I went with a carry instead of support because the dudes we were playing with were super green)

Anyway I'm just gonna give a rough outline about what happened as far as I can tell without watching the replay.

basically me and Razor (we were pretty much both pros compared to everybody else) were able to crush the top lane and got all of the farm while doing a super good job at harassing the dudes who were up there with us

Basically as lane support it was my job to deny creeps (last hitting your own creeps to take the experience away from the enemy team) and set up wards (I didn't bother with wards because I figured I might need the exp I got from farming more, I think I was right) and it was Razor's job to get last hits so he could buy items that improved his stats / gave him exciting new abilities. Once I got my ultimate (a three second area of effect stun) we were able to go gank the dudes in our lane a couple of times, me stunning Razor taking down the hit points (that's why he liked me so much).

I think death profit was at mid? he did a pretty good job just sort of did death profit mid things, not sure if he did super great or if he could of done better. by the end of the game he was pretty much the mvp of our team so he probably did allright.

His job was to try to lane against the other mid (since there is only one person in the mid lane the exp all goes to them and they level faster), once he reached an appropriate level he would leave the lane and try to get ganks (ganks give really good exp and money, if you want the big exp and money you pretty much need kills unless you're going for some weird multi midas touch jungle gimmick build)

now you and slark you were supposed to play similar to me and razor, with slark getting the farm and you getting the denys/setting up wards (slark is in general terms more of a carry and Crystal Maiden is a hard support), but it was your first game of DOTA and slark was also by all accounts pretty clueless so that ended in tragedy, and you both fed the dudes in that lane pretty bad.

But that's actually not the reason why we lost (ok it's A reason but there are other reasons) you see there's a point in a game of DOTA where people stop being nice and start being real, basically the exp/gold gained by laning starts to become more and more inconsequential when compared to the exp/gold from getting kills and people start pushing lanes trying to force a team fight and or take some towers (you just sort of kept farming through most of this early stage but we still did ok against the other team, could of done better with you but hey knowing how to farm is important and I'm pretty sure I did the same thing in my early Dota games)

now while these big tower pushes were happening two very important things happened

#1 The enemy phantom lancer got super fed

#2 A bunch of Towers got destroyed but most importantly the one guarding the enemy mid barracks

now if we were able to mount a push and destroy those barracks our base would have started spawning mid Mega creeps, while not making victory inevitable this would of put them on their back foot.

But even though we were coming out about even in team fights (ok not that even they had like twice as many kills as us by the end but still) we just didn't have the PUSHING POWER that Phantom Lancer was able to put out as all of his illusions managed to destroy our creeps with lightning quickness (I was thinking about buying a necronomicon that would give me some skeletons to counter this but by the time I realized what was happening I didn't have the gold so oh well)

Phantom Lancer was pretty much able to single handedly bring all of the creeps to our tower, they won a couple of team fights that was GG.

Ok now onto why our Razor was sort of a clueless douche who I listened to for some reason.

While the game was paused he had this great idea to get a gem of true sight to counter clinx or whatever that dumb skeleton archer is called, clinx was super under leveled and not at all a threat I should of just said "nope I'm gonna drop that thing and then they'll be able to see me when I'm invisible" but hey gotta respect the chain of command, The gem cost like 900 gold was never useful at all I dropped it like five minutes later and the enemy team picked it up.

Then later on he was all like "hey Treant can you heal that tower?" The tower was literally one hit away from death I should of just denied it (denying a tower only gives the enemy half the gold they would normally get) and kept moving but NOPE I was all "I don't know if that's a good idea but sure thing boss" healed the tower and then I was immediately ganked and we lost the tower.

Also he played super conservative which hey is way better than playing super bold but sometimes I would go to gank and he just wasn't in it but that's not really a big deal.

Anyway the moral of the story is that sometimes you have to stand up to somebody's arbitrary internet authority and claim some arbitrary internet authority for yourself even if you don't consider yourself a DOTA general first class. (to be fair to Razor he was aware of what items I had and asked for a mana boost from my boots once that was pretty impressive, I never know what items my teammates have. (hey maybe I should start looking at that while I'm dead instead of not doing anything) (also by deferring authority it made him get way madder as we lost because the loss was his and his alone and that was pretty funny to watch))


Edit from 2017: what a bunch of unreadable garbage
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the only thing id like to say in regards to it is that like ive said before i think it bears reminding that white or i guess in this case cis babyism is a thing that shouldnt be trivialized

Last edited by freepooper; May. 4, 2017 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Stupid
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Old Jun. 30, 2014, 02:33 AM   #17
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

Winning comes with practice and experience

practice requires dedication

experience requires time

One of my friends I made in college plays really good DOTA. when we first met I only had like 24 hours and he had about 600 hours. So whenever we played the both of us played bot matches so I could get the basics down, than we played PVP. I did alright, but when we lost I ended up feeding or getting destroyed. the matchmaking probably did that but after every game I either listened to him or saw strategies that I remembered but I don't remember now. I would also focus on mastering heroes than picking a variety of heroes. The only hero I would play for about a month with him was Clockwerk. I'm a friggen baller with clockwerk but after I got him down I expanded my pool of heroes. Trust me it feels really frustrating when you have a limited pool of heores youre good at but its best to stick with what you're best at and then experiment with "safe" bot matches than when you think you're ready take it to PVP. bots teach basics and PVP teaches you what NOT to do.

I hate dota 2
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Old Jun. 30, 2014, 04:48 AM   #18
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

Solid analysis. I would only disagree with your point about wards: it only takes a few seconds to go slap down one in the jungle and one next to your rune, and it is absolutely invaluable for knowing what the enemy is up to. If it saves you from a death, or gets you an extra kill, it's paid for itself a few times over.

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Anyway the moral of the story is that sometimes you have to stand up to somebody's arbitrary internet authority and claim some arbitrary internet authority for yourself even if you don't consider yourself a DOTA general first class. (to be fair to Razor he was aware of what items I had and asked for a mana boost from my boots once that was pretty impressive, I never know what items my teammates have. (hey maybe I should start looking at that while I'm dead instead of not doing anything) (also by deferring authority it made him get way madder as we lost because the loss was his and his alone and that was pretty funny to watch))
This, by the way, is why I sometimes (often? always?) go into Captain Symuun Mode. Giving clear direction to a team helps them be much more effective, but feel free to overrule me at any time if I'm calling for something idiotic
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Old Jul. 6, 2014, 05:45 PM   #19
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth




While quasi-ashamed that I did so poorly in this match, I suppose it's worth sharing because it's the first ZP 5-stack win.
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Old Jul. 6, 2014, 09:22 PM   #20
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Default Re: Dota 2: Team Zelda Pals rides forth

Welcome to support life. The struggle is real
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